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any any any any pro snakers can tell me wat da hell is wrong with my snake? no matter how hard i train n all it still is like shit..only pull snake got problem.. keep on hitting the wall.. hmm.. duno la.. issit bcuz not enuf recoil or i pull to far.. i pull until almost hit the wall..sometimes my rod hits the wall.. advice plz..wanna get ready atleast for the breakers novice.
Visor, there's a few way to train your snake and you can follow some simple training system. There's one training system over at foosball.com and I find it quite useful. It goes something like this...
1) First, train your striking motion. Place a 'puck' or a self-made box which is about the same height with the foosball. Place at the middle and do a front-pin with the box or 'puck'.
2) rest your wrist on the handle and make sure you feel comfortable when you do the roll-over with your wrist.
3) try to do an imaginary pull-side snake on your own. Keep doing it until you get the right feeling.
4) Once you are done with about 100 times(yes..persistency is a must) or whenever you're ready, place a ball right at the last hole of the pull-side. The point where the ball should be when you're hitting it.
5) Using the 'puck' or box as an imaginary ball (stationary), set up for a snake shot. Then try to do a pull-side snake and hit the ball into the goal.
Hope this will help. If not, ask any fooser is good with snakes. Im sure they'll be willing to give a few pointers. Good luck.
icic thank you.. but u see.. if imagining pulling with the puck ( box ) rite.. and getting comfortable.. then if i feel im ready.. and then i place a ball at the last hole.. then i try and hit it .. its different with PULLING THE BALL TOGETHER..cuz of the timing .. rite? than rather leaving the ball there n execute it.. its different i think..
front pin the ball...roll the ball to the pull side, then try to hit it full ball..dont concerntrate on the pace and recoiling yet...get the feel of hitting the full ball 1st...then slowly increase your speed...but make sure...rolling and hitting full ball...start slow...
not much advice i can give here but lol but just remember to start slow lah hor?
oK, first you get comfortable with rocking.
second you work on your lateral.
third you work on whatever you guys are talking about above.
fourth you put those 1st, 2nd and 3rd altogether.
fifth if you wanna improve train.
sixth if you wanna improve ask.
seventh if you wanna to improve train somemore.
and eighth papa bear will kill me.
ya ya ya, i also have a snake problem...
you see, after i "push" and "pull" too much, my snake becomes limp. how do i last longer? administraters?
ANYWAY, don't learn the 'snake-shot' for the attractive sounds (from the goal or girls around). Like the pros above have stated; focus on hitting the ball INTO the goal, NOT as hard as you can.
once you've found your rhythm, then you will rock all the girls' panties off man, no joke... then you can teach me!
Priorities to your standing position. Stand proper, stand comfortable, stand winning.. that is the key to all shots. No stance, no change in delivering a good shot. Start by standing proper, then consider performing A shot.
adding on to what Hyppo has mentioned, try to do what is basically needed of a particular shot, not too much other body movements which you'll find hard to adjust back..
on to snake/roll-over, i m not any pro-snaker at all and i don't do that shot much but the mechanism (from my view)is to basically:-
i)get a grip on the ball (firm allowing u to control the rocking motion or to control its direction when striking if in the case of a stationary snake BUT not pressing on it too hard thinking that it has any effect whatsoever in the shot cos it doesn and in fact will hinder movement of the shot altogether);
ii) once you have a firm grip, perhaps u should try to pull or push the ball so that it moves in a lateral/straight path, i.e not moving off-line, causing u to mis-shoot the ball if its too front or to accidentally pin the ball and slowing down the strike if its too back;
iii) consider striking the ball once the lateral path is achieve and this must ideally be full-ball contact so that the shot will be straight;
iv) the recoil motion is not the utmost part of the shot but instead a follow-up of the full-ball contact; and in fact u might or will realise that u need not actually recoil at all if u r "pulling" the snake but might be slightly needed in terms of "pushing";
so Visor, these advice might not fully answer your question or solve the problem but you will need them in some way or another to incorporate in your shot at your own style of play. Focus on (i) & (ii) and then pay more emphasise on (iii) before adjourning to (iv). You might even consider trying the first three steps in slow-mo to get an idea before adjourning to incorporating it into a single shot.
and now what are mr OPS' thoughts on pull shot?
break down and basics of the shot please :)
and how you train can become sooo keng until can rock the pants off girls? *stares at sky*
i do bloody pull shot follow your motion but cannot do it fast... if fast no more recoil liow...
ok, i'll put something down here too..esspecially since it was mentioned in another thread
28 Feb 2007 18:54
# 12
Roll Over for dummies.
1) place the ball under the man in a front pin position.
2) Place the inside of your wrist on the handle with your arm at 90 degrees (vertically) from the ground. (Where "o" is the butt of the rod, and "!" is your arm, fingers are facing down towards the ground) It should look like " o! ". Please DO NOT HOOK your wrist under the handle bar. I'll explain why later.
3) Rock the rod in a forward and backward motion. This will result in the man moving over the ball. The ideal motion would be to rock over half of the ball from the push to the pull motion. Keep doing this for about an hour. Just keep rocking the the man over the ball, without losing control of it.
3) Now push the rod/ball and release the ball without hitting it. And do the same for the pull side. This is a VERY important part to learning an effective snake shot. The faster you can push or pull the ball to the 2 corners of the goal the longer and faster your final shot will be. Keep doing this until the ball travels in a straight path towards the side wall the table. If the ball doesnt reach the side walls, you are not ready to strike the ball yet.
I say this again! This is a VERY important part to learning a good snake. The pushing and pulling motion is the key to a long and fast snake shot.
Practice pushing and pulling the ball WITHOUT HITTING the ball. Just keep rocking, and push(release the ball, but do not hit). Rock and pull (release the ball, but do not hit). Just release the ball and watch it roll to the wall. Keep doing this for about an hour.
4) By now the insides of your wrist should be alittle red and sore. This is normal, and when you start to learn how to shoot dead ball you may even bleed.
5) Now after rocking the ball and releasing the ball in the push and pull motion (if your ball hasnt not been able to reach the side walls of the table do not start to strike at the ball, this will cause your muscle memory to remember the wrong motion, and you dont want that). Assuming that both the push and pull side rocking and releasing of the balls are smooth and fast, and your balls are able to reach the side walls of the table, you are ready to strike the ball. Push and release the ball as you have been doing before, now rotate the rod by pulling your wrist upward (the handle bar will come into your hand) and strike the ball at the location of where you want to score the goal on the push side. Please do this slow so you understand the steps.
a) rock
b) push or pull
c) Rotate rod/man where the man strikes the ball after the release.
o o o o O o o o o
the big circle is the ball, the small dots are the dots on the table. Push the ball to the last dot on the right and rotate your rod/hitting the ball at the last dot on the right. Do this slowly. and do it for both sides.
No need to brush back/recoil yet. Concentrate on the speed of the push and release and the pull and release, and making contact with the ball at the dot you choose.
6) If your ball doesnt reach the dot fast enough, you will miss hit the ball. Go back to practising the rocking and push release or rocking and pull release. The ball should be able to reach the side walls of the table, and also be travelling in a straight path to the walls as your practice the rocking and push release and pull release.
7) BrushBack /Recoil - this is for advance users. The reason why you want to brushbak/recoil is because of a few reasons. The first is your push release and pull release are now so fast that if you attempt to hit the ball the ball will spray away from the goal. So, inorder to get a square shot, you need to apply force from the opposite direction the ball is being released in. Hence, if you pushing the ball, you want to rotate and hit the ball while apply force to the shot in an opposite direction (rod in pulling motion after you had just pushed and released the ball. Same goes for the pull side, after you pull release the ball, you rotate and hit the ball with the rod in a push motion). This will provide a square shot, and prevent a the spraying of the ball towards the wall.
The second reason, in order to shoot the deadman the rod/man is travelling faster to the point of contact and already in a brushback at the OPTIMUM distance available where the bumpers may hit the sidewall.
There is a big misunderstanding what a deadman is. Ok, what is deadman? Stand in the forward 3 bar, push the bumpers of the 2 rod to the opposite wall. Now look at the closest defender(2 man rod). Now pull the forwards (3 rod) bumpers to the wall. Now bend down and have a good look at the center man and the closest defender, you will see a small path between the defender and the goal mouth, and you center forward will be right at the this path. THAT IS A DEADMAN SHOT! Alot of times hitting that shot will require that your bumpers acutally touch (i changed the word from hit to touch, cause there was a misunderstanding) the wall, and while you in the rotation of the rod, you rod actually bends forcing the centerman actually hit the ball from outside of the goal mouth brushing it back towards the goal. For those who already can shoot DEADMAN, have you noticed that the rod bends? This actually shorthen the distances of the man to wall making the distance of the center man closer to the wall hence moving past it normal DEADMAN position, and shooting the ball back in the brush back motion. Same principles for the pull shot apply. Pull and bend the rod moving the man past the defender and brush the shot back towards the goal.(actually after thinking about it, this part regarding the bending of the rod applies more to pull shot than the roll over, even though it may apply for both. I just cant remember)(If by any chance Jason is reading, believe it or not....yes, i've shot the deadman with the pull shot many times....LOL. You bet im great =p, okok was great, wait, in your words "astonishing")
The third reason, is to allow you hand to move in a whip motion, you whole arm should not be STIFF...it should be in a loose and relax motion from rocking to the final shot execution. So, if your going to brushback the recoil motion allows your arm to be loose, and not STIFF. The recoil is actually the follow through of the brushback motion. Im not sure but i also believe that the recoil helps your muscles alot, cause without the recoil i used to feel pain in my elbow after a few hours of playing.
PLEASE NOTE!!!! VERY IMPORTANT, DO NOT ATTEMPT THE BRUSH BACK UNTIL YOU ARE ALREADY COMFORTABLE WITH THE STANDARD SNAKE. It will make learning the shot MUCH faster and EASIER if you break the learning curve down to steps.
A simple sammury of the steps.
1) ROCKING
2) ROCKING AND RELEASING (ball must travel fast and straight)
3) ROCKING, RELEASING AND ROTATING THE ROD TO HIT THE BALL
4) ROCKING, RELEASING, ROTATING ROD, HIT THE BALL IN A BRUSHBACK MOTION.
these are the 4 simple steps to shooting the good roll over. Good Luck
Snaker lol snake's not my favourite shot it's only my backup shot or i usually use it when im not in d serious mood neway regarding ur problem bout pull snake ive a somewhat similiar situation and ive 2 quick tips 2 fix it and hope it helps and note that im not a pro snaker lol
1.Notice on how much u usually pull when u do ur pull snake and tryna pull abit less?This helps for me but its not my favourite solution
2.Recoil faster and harder after ur rod bang the wall,this is what i prefer 2 do cause it gives u a deadman snake but as u kno alotta foosers claim dat its not necessary 2 do a deadman cos it's usually slower plus it's harder 2 learn too and i agree too but me being not a snaker so i dont reli care much bout my speed,i just wanna hit the target and hav fun wit snake and for u,u can move on from hitting the target after that since that this's ur problem now
any any any any pro snakers can tell me wat da hell is wrong with my snake? no matter how hard i train n all it still is like shit..only pull snake got problem.. keep on hitting the wall.. hmm.. duno la.. issit bcuz not enuf recoil or i pull to far.. i pull until almost hit the wall..sometimes my rod hits the wall.. advice plz..wanna get ready atleast for the breakers novice.
Im no PRO in snake shot!
Well i guess there is nothing wrong with your push side, But you seems to hit the wall for pull.
Push and Pull for snake shot = 2 diffrent way of exicuting the shot.
what you can do for your pull... emm i think you just need to know either the ball or the pin is faster. if you say that you keep hitting the wall then i guess the ball is faster then the pin.
what you can do... Pull the ball a little bit slower (eazy to race for a blocker.. hehehe) or try to pull the pin faster. what ever you do the pin/men must travel faster then the ball.
( if im wrong please let me know, i know there is lots of other PRO out there )
I'll say go back to the rocking and practice that again. Rocking and lateral motion...watch the ball hit the pullside wall acouple of times and try hitting the ball. Go slow, and slowly speed up.
If you know that when you going full speed your hitting the wall, take a couple of steps back...and start slow again, and build up to it. Its your muscle memory that keeps making you shoot the shot behind the ball, so you need to allow your muscle to relearn the shot.
Its like a golf swing, once you have bad habits it gets very hard to change them. Thats why my post above (snake for dummies) i specifically mention to practice the lateral release of the ball without hitting the ball. Its 4 steps...not one, pull...release....rotate...brush back.
shooting a snake is easy. getting good at is not. Ok.. ur spraying/shooting the wall, could be your execution+minimal recoil+timing = unbalance. i would suggest that you execute earlier and try does give a whole new idea. play around with the concept of timing as well..
You know... if I was the guy who asked, i would be soOooOo confused now. One fler said use puck, another fler said hit bumper (by the way, that's illegal just so you know), somemore got what?
If you can hit one side well means you are not practicing the other side enough la.... so simple
Furthermore, the forum is such a tough place to learn how to shoot a shot unless you have such good imagination. You wanna learn, go look for someone who you wanna shoot like them and ask la.
Just say, "Hello madam, i see that you have a very good pull side snake and mine is quite sissy la, so maybe you can tell me what i may be doing wrong" Simple right? Cost nothing somemore.
Don't worry, last time i asked for advice, i didn't loose my balls so go ahead, nothing to be scared about.
message edited by ThrowRodKing (03 Mar 2007 05:15)
Sorry about that, misunderstanding what i meant was the bumpers actually "touch" the side wall.
Actually, the purpose of reading about the technical aspects of the shot is so you get a chance to understand the principles of how the shot is done. Alot of times, going straight to the table without understand the important areas will lead the player into alot of bad habits, one good example is if you dont start with good lateral release for both pull and push sides, very often the player developes 1 very strong side and one weak side. This happens purely because the player doesnt understand the steps taken to ensure that both sides will the exactly the same.
The 4 steps i mentioned above is to help make understanding the shot easier, it is by no means the only way to learn how to shoot this shot. I actually read about the 4 steps like 7 years ago, and it work great for me. Within 1-2 months i was shooting deadball. It was from some foosball website, cant remember where though.
Sure practice makes perfect, but when you keep practicing the same things..how do you identify if its the right thing your practicing? You need to research, and then go back to the table and try things out. I dont believe that practicing alone is enough, i think most of the actual learning process is in thinking about what your doing before you practice. And thats all these suggestions are, its here to help people with problems. Maybe help them understand where the problems are, and by identifying this they can takes steps to make changes.
I do feel the puck example of how to shoot the roll over doesnt cover the lateral movement of the ball ENOUGH, which to me is key to a fast and long snake shot. The whole shot is made or broken in the lateral release of the ball. In fact, its a great warm up exercise for a roll over shooter, just rock the ball and release it, it helps the player feel the table surface, and we all know every table is different.
Practising.. It is true that we need a proper guidance before the practise can be done. Ive been using the roll over for many years and believe me, I am still evolving. What throwrodking said is true, do walk up to those u feel that can give you a couple of pointers, I am very sure ALL would give more than you can absorb..
Lets put things in perspective.. There are alot of ways to handle an issue, its WHICH way we use it to make it a "better day"..
Just do the simple check - Stand/posture/execution and the most important thing.. OBSERVE your shot..
OBSERVE if the shot was good.. then put that in "memory"
OBSERVE if the shot was bad.. then change and adapt..
Oh yeah.. Being an offense one must adapt to the defense and Im very sure, drilling will be a breaze..
hmmm its best to have someone experienced to personally look at a persons snake (roll over) as it varies from each individual...
An experienced snake shooter will be able to help you with your problem i.e your roll over timing, your rocking etc
So when u're practising or playing with a snaker, you can always ask them for advice....
To me, its the fastest way to learn :P
xinkalan
missed out something though
05 Mar 2007 21:16
# 23
2) Place the inside of your wrist on the handle with your arm at 90 degrees (vertically) from the ground. (Where "o" is the butt of the rod, and "!" is your arm, fingers are facing down towards the ground) It should look like " o! ". Please DO NOT HOOK your wrist under the handle bar. I'll explain why later.
erm if i am not mistaken you didnt add in the explaination in the post above
Yea, your right i didnt explain it. Ok here it is.
There 2 reason why hooking your wrist under the bar is bad;
1) It is a give away that your strong side is the pull roll over
2) By hooking your wrist under the rod your rocking and release of the shot is a complete muscle shot. The whipping and brush back of the hand and arm is harder.
If you look at all the top pros(roll over). Hands are always straight down facing the floor(fingers are relaxed of course), in other words wrist is in line with arm. And elbow to wrist is also facing straight down(depends on height of the player, but straighter it is the better). The shot starts from the elbow in a rocking motion, so in order for your shot to look and to be executed the same the starting position should be the same.
So, if you follow the method i explained above and if you want to shoot both sides STRONG, you best bet would be to start in the exact same poistion for both the pull and push side. And if you want to save your strength you want to acheive the whipping motion(loose elbow and wrist), and the best way to do this is as explained above.
I was looking for that article i read about this. I'll look again tmr, but its a good article, and i'll try to find it for you.
Ok, most of you may already be hooking your wrist under the rod, if you find there are weaknesses in your current shot it may be because of the hooking(it has limitations). And it may be good idea to relearn the shot. This all depends now how you look at it. Let me give you an example of this.
Tiger Woods was already one of the best drivers of the ball, when he decided to relearn the shot. After about 1 year of training his new swing it gave him like an extra 50 meters or so. So, while alot of people may say "Hey, you're doing great with what you're doing now. Why change it and mess with what is working?". The answer is very simple..."ITS NOT PERFECT!".
Im not telling you to change what your doing, this is a decision you have to make for yourself. If it worth changing the execution of your shot, but i will say this much, to relearn is not easy and you will be fighting hard with yourself to not use all the old habits(what i would consider bad habits).
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